Décolletage Solutions At A Glance
- Best ResultsVariable
- Treatment RecoveryVariable
- Procedure Time1-3 minutes (Botox)
- Skin SpecialistMedical dermatologist before procedural
- Duration of ResultsYears +
- AnaestheticNA
- Back to WorkNA
- Cost$$$-$$$$
Neurogenic Rosacea
Neurogenic rosacea is a rare subtype of rosacea characterized by persistent redness, burning, stinging, and sensitivity, often without the usual triggers like heat or spicy foods. Unlike typical rosacea, it is linked to nerve dysfunction, causing heightened pain sensations and discomfort. Patients may experience extreme sensitivity to skincare products and environmental factors, with symptoms sometimes resembling neuropathic pain.
FactsFacts on Neurogenic Rosacea
- Neurogenic rosacea presents as burning, stinging, pain & sensitivity that is out of proportion to the clinical signs
- In most cases the skin is red & inflamed, however this is less than with classic rosacea
- In some cases, pimples & redness can be associated with flushing & blushing
- Neurogenic rosacea is the most challenging subtype of rosacea to treat, often it is not responsive to usual medications
- The mainstay of symptom relief is medical, namely SSRI & TCA tablets
- Botox can be useful in some cases that are refractory to tablets
- This form of rosacea rarely responds to vascular lasers
What is neurogenic rosacea?
Neurogenic rosacea is a recently reported entity (since 2011) which forms a subset of rosacea. It is very rare, accounting for less than 0.1% of rosacea cases. It can co-exist with the normal signs of rosacea (pimples, lumps, redness, broken blood vessels, flushing, & blushing), or more commonly present as redness & flushing without lumps or bumps.
The standout features of neurogenic rosacea are symptoms such as burning, stinging, pain, & skin sensitivity that is out of proportion to the signs of normal rosacea.
Why is neurogenic rosacea harder to treat compared to ‘normal’ rosacea?
Inflammatory papular-pustular rosacea, redness & broken blood vessels are relatively easier forms of rosacea to treat as there are physical signs. Neurogenic rosacea on the other hand, has a paucity of physical signs, but a plethora of symptoms (itch, pain, sensitives, burning).
For a condition that presents as symptoms, efforts are focused on reducing pain & nerve fibre messaging, followed by reducing inflammation. This means the use of tablets that target the nerves in the skin.
What tests can be done to find out if rosacea is ‘neurogenic’ in origin?
A medical dermatologist (not me, I am a procedural dermatologist), can diagnose this condition. Most patients do not require special testing, however if you do have other signs or symptoms your medical dermatologist may-
- Do blood work up to exclude lupus. Occasionally they may take a biopsy to exclude lupus, not to confirm neurogenic rosacea.
- Exclude other conditions such as trigeminal nerve dysfunction, eg. Neuralgia or trophic syndromes.
- Undertake patch testing if your symptoms include itch & sensitivities. (Let them decide).
How is neurogenic rosacea diagnosed?
A medical dermatologist can diagnose this rare, but well recognised condition. They can exclude other skin conditions that may mimic neurogenic rosacea including lupus & conditions such as trigeminal neuralgia.
Disclaimer: I do not diagnose or initially treat neurogenic rosacea. My skill sets are in procedural dermatology, namely I Botox or laser this condition, acknowledging that medical therapy comes before procedural methods.
How to treat neurogenic rosacea?
This form of rosacea is challenging to treat as commonly, topical creams do not work. Additionally they can exacerbate the condition.
Your dermatologist will try you on a ‘step-up’ treatment plan that goes something like this-
- Step one, topicals: Rozex, Azclear, Mirvaso (can flare up the condition), niacinamide.
- Step two, usual anti-inflammatory medications: Doxycycline, minocycline, erythromycin.
- Step three, possibly isotretinoin, maybe vascular lasers.
- Step four, probably the best outcomes for neurogenic rosacea. These tablets modify pain receptors in your skin. They include pregabapentin, gabapentin, fluoxetine, duloxetine & amitriptyline. Most will cause some degree of sedation.
Escalation from step one to step four usually takes 6-25 weeks, depending on how quickly you & your dermatologist moves. More on how to manage your rosacea at home.
Disclaimer: I am a procedural dermatologist, I do not prescribe medications for neurogenic rosacea. My skill sets are with injectables & laser work.
How can you relieve symptoms of neurogenic rosacea?
Obviously seeing a medical dermatologist, neurologist, pain medicine specialist & a psychologist can help, however you may want to give these few pointers a go-
Minimise flare factors. Easier said than done. Flare factors of neurogenic rosacea include UV, heat, exercise, stress & emotional input. A medical dermatologist can help explain things in more detail, however you can find out useful tips here.
Control the temperature of washing. Seems logical, but tepid water can help some sufferers, acknowledging that in most cases, even water on the skin can cause pain (that’s where drugs come in).
Use cooling to relieve pain & symptoms. If you are reading this, chances are you have figured out the value of a handheld fan. Newer force-fed air movers (about $30-40 on eBay or Amazon) can provide symptom relief. Buy some aqueous cream, add some menthol (about 0.5 to2% by weight) & keep it in the fridge. Apply to skin, cool with a fan. It works in over 90% of cases, with symptom relief of seconds, minutes to hours.
Psychotherapy. Don’t see a dermatologist to help you manage stress & emotional input, most of us are not trained to provide any sort of useful advice. Seek help from a psychologist, or alternatively meditate at home. CBD or cognitive behavioural therapy can provide powerful symptomatic relief in some.
Topicals & cream use. Be careful what you put on, even banal creams such as Rozex, Soolantra, niacinamide & azelaic acid can flare up your symptoms. Learn how to patch test any form of topicals.
More on tips for rosacea prone skin.
How should you approach skin care if you have neurogenic rosacea?
Cautiously. Rosacea patients have extra-sensitive skin. For neurogenic rosacea patients, multiply this sensitivity by a factor of 10. Understand patch testing before you attempt to apply things on your face. More on how to patch tests later.
For true cases of neurogenic rosacea, topical therapy usually provides little relief. In some cases it can even worsen stinging, burning, itch & pain. In the minority of cases, you can try-
Niacinamide 5-10% Vitamin B3 can reduce inflammation, redness as well as improve your skin’s barrier function. Apply once to twice daily.
Rozex or Metronidazole gel. This is better tolerated in classic rosacea. You can obtain this via your GP or over the counter in Australia.
Azelaic acid 10-20%, azelaic acid can reduce inflammation as it is relatively gentle on the skin. Azclear is a good brand.
Tocopherol or vitamin E is a fat soluble vitamin. It is a powerful antioxidant that does not irritate skin.
Tacroliumus can be considered under the supervision of a dermatologist. It can reduce inflammation, but conversely may cause more stinging & burning.
Sodium sulfacetamide & sulfur is another formulation that is more useful for inflammatory rosacea over neurogenic cases. You can leave this formulation in the fridge as it may provide a reduction of symptoms in some neurogenic cases.
Aqueous cream & menthol can be considered in some cases of neurogenic rosacea. Keep this in the fridge, apply on skin then use a fan to help cool down skin. It works surprisingly well.
More on how to use skin care for super sensitive skin.
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How to test creams & topicals in neurogenic rosacea patients?
Creams may provide some relief (if you are lucky), however you should undertake a test patch before full face application (like that’s not obvious). Here is how to do it.
- Choose a small site in front of the ear (one side).
- Apply a small amount of cream, fingertip, to cover 1-3 cm squared.
- If your symptoms don’t get worse, increase the application amount gradually.
Of the creams listed above, the one that provides the most relief, with least amount of side effects is aqueous cream, available in most pharmacies. Your medical dermatologist can add 0.5 to 2% menthol to be compounded in the formulation. Keep this in the fridge & apply 1-4 times per day. Use a portable fan immediately after to relieve burning, stinging & pain.
How can Botox help in neurogenic rosacea patients?
Botox can be considered in refractory cases of rosacea, including neurogenic rosacea. Botox is NOT the first line as tablets & medical therapy ideally should be considered prior to injections.
Botox does not cure neurogenic rosacea, but can work by stabilizing nerve fibres & deactivate mast cells. It works in 60-70% of cases & lasts up to 4-5 months. Here is how I do it-
- A patch test is chosen. This involves treating a small area (e.g. forehead or one cheek).
- If Botox is successful, other areas may be treated.
- Botox takes 7 to 14 days to be effective.
- It can not be placed in all areas as Botox relaxes muscles.
What are the limitations of Botox for neurogenic rosacea?
The downside of Botox is the expense & limitations of how much we inject & where we inject as well as duration of action.
Botox can work in about 60-70% of refractory cases. Costs are prohibitive, as a guide, patch testing a small area costs $750 to $800, whilst extensive areas cost between $1200 to $1790. Not all areas can be treated as Botox also relaxes muscles.
Can lasers help?
This is my realm of work, namely procedural, however here are the facts about lasers & neurogenic rosacea.
- Lasers are much more useful at treating ‘normal rosacea’, namely redness, broken blood vessels, pimples, as well as phyma.
- IPL & lasers have been reported to help relieve the signs & more so the symptoms of neurogenic rosacea as they can reduce inflammation. These are exceptional cases & not the norm.
- Medical therapy (via a normal dermatologist) with the use of oral medication, provides superior results compared to lasers in most cases of neurogenic rosacea.
- Lasers can, in some cases, temporarily worsen neurogenic rosacea, hence they should not be considered as first line therapy. Lasers, much like Botox, sit at the very end of the treatment line for this form of rosacea.
- If lasers are to be considered, a patch test is required (often one cheek or part of the cheek- forehead). Costing for patch testing ranges between $800-$990 per session. Medicare may provide a nominal rebate of only $150.
- If a laser is considered, the best ones will have dynamic cooling over contact cooling. These lasers include V Beam or Derma V.
Disclaimer: My advice is that patients should have trailed & failed medical & psychological treatment before attempting vascular laser. If you have true redness that can be objectively measured, lasers may help. If you have very little target, chances are, lasers won’t work.
What are the side effects of lasers for neurogenic rosacea?
Side effects of lasers for this type of rosacea are much higher than in normal rosacea, hence why I advocate medical over procedural intervention for neurogenic rosacea. They include-
- Increased pain & sensitivity that may last for hours, days, or weeks. In some cases, hypersensitivity may last months to even years.
- Swelling & paradoxical redness.
Lasers are aimed at treating inflammation & redness. They have much less modulation on the nerves of the skin, as compared to drugs. Cases of mixed ‘normal rosacea’ & neurogenic rosacea do best with lasers, not just neurogenic subtypes.
What is the best sunscreen for neurogenic rosacea?
Ideally, a physical blocker such as zinc or titanium dioxide, as these are better tolerated compared to chemical sunscreens. Invisible Zinc is an example that you can readily purchase in Australia.
As with all topical creams, you should test patch sunscreens by applying a small amount (2-3 cm squared) on one cheek, in front of your ear to see if you react to the product.
For neurogenic rosacea patients, you may be better served by NOT applying anything on your face & concentrate on sun avoidance, over the use of sunscreens.
What is the best makeup for neurogenic rosacea patients?
Mineral over liquid foundation. Ensure that make up is talc & paraben free. For severe cases of neurogenic rosacea, removal of make up can be problematic as it may increase symptoms.
*Parabens can be a source of allergic reactions, which may give rise to stinging, burning & itching, symptoms of neurogenic rosacea. In the context of things, allergic contact dermatitis to parabens is rare, however your medical dermatologist may elect to patch test you to exclude allergens.
**Disclaimer: I do not practice medical dermatology, including patch testing. Patch testing can be considered if you have symptoms & history suggestive of allergies. Leave this decision to your medical dermatologist.
What is the best face wash for neurogenic rosacea / sensitive skin?
Gentle cleansers without exfoliants are recommended for rosacea. The role of a cleaner is to remove dirt, oil & make up without flaring up your symptoms. They are not designed to treat your symptoms.
La Roche Posay Rosaliac or Toleriane range are good products.
Extra facial pigment including sun damage /actinic/ poikiloderma can be challenging to treat. This was after two BBL treatments by Alison @cutis.dermatology
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🔫Options: Vascular lasers, BBL, thulium 1927 or 1940, diode 1927, other superficial fractional wavelengths. Chemical peels can be useful if leaning towards pigment rather than vascular
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🧴Sunscreen & cover up clothing: is mandatory. For life
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😎Davin Lim
Brisbane🇦🇺
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#neckrejuvenation #sundamage #poikiloderma #skinrejuvenation #davinlim #drdavinlim #dermatologist #pigmentationtreatments #skinlightening #brisbanedermatologist #sciton #scitonBBL
Antioxidants form the second layer of defence after photoprotection
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🔬Skin science: these molecules reduce free radical damage by donation of electrons. In the context of skin, exogenous free radicals are due to UVR & environmental pollutants
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👉Keep it simple: A combination of ascorbic acid, ferulic acid & tocopherol or vitamin E can be used under your sunscreen as part of your morning skincare routine. 3-6 drops of your favourite serum will do the trick
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👍🏻Other antioxidants include #niacinamide, #retinol, #resveratrol & botanicals such as green tea, blueberries & raspberries🍓
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😎Davin Lim
Dermatologist
Brisbane🇦🇺
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#dermatologist #brisbanedermatology #antiaging #antioxidantskincare #antioxidants
#ceferulic #skincaretips #skincareroutine #skincarecommunity #drdavinlim
Retinoids are one of the most widely prescribed drugs for treating skin conditions. Uses include acne & anti aging all the way to genetic disorders of cell turnover
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🔬Skin science: Retinoids exert their power through interactions with retinoid receptors known as RAR or retinoic acid receptors. In the skin, gamma is the most prevalent, hence why I have changed my prescription habits & favor a fourth generation retinoid called trifarotene (gamma specific retinoid)
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👍🏻Tips: start with an OTC formulation. Retinol 0.5-1% is a good starting point. From there understand your skin’s threshold & know how to modulate & optimise topicals 💯
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📖My practice: I prescribe topical retinoids to a small minority of patients (in the context of anti-aging), usually post laser or deep chemical peels. Your dermatologist may have a different algorithm. Prescription retinoids are tricker to use cf OTC, but with a sensible approach, most people will work it out. More on how to use in next week's post
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😎Davin Lim
Dermatologist
Brisbane🇦🇺
#retinoids #retinol #skinscience #skincarecommunity #retinoicacid #skincaretips #drdavinlim #dermatologistbrisbane
Why is a psychologist useful?
Put bluntly, most dermatologists are hopeless at psychological counselling as we are focused on short consultations given our patient load. Additionally, we do not receive adequate training to deal with psychological counselling.
Any condition that has a significant impairment on the quality of life will benefit from professional input from a psychologist who can spend one hour or more listening.
What are the finer points of neurogenic rosacea management?
The more analytical you are, the greater the chances of symptom relief, acknowledging that this form of rosacea is much harder to ‘figure out’ compared to normal rosacea.
The less you ruminate about this problem, the better your headspace will be. Easier said than done, hence why I advocate that you seek professional counselling by a psychologist who has experience in managing chronic pain. Seeking professional help early is the key to getting your sh*t shorted as this is the most debilitating form of rosacea.
Listen to your dermatologist: most will recognise this condition early. Most will move quickly to start you on the usual rounds of doxy, minocycline, EES, isotretinoin & lasers. Failing that, they will do a Pubmed search, however experienced ones know how to titrate you on TCA & SSRI. Do it. You have a much higher chance of symptom relief.
What if all else fails?
OK, let us say you have consulted a medical dermatologist who has worked with a psychologist & a pain management specialist. You have trialed & failed all the usual medications for this condition, including pregabapentin, gabapentin (under neurologist), variable doses of antidepressants, including TCAs such as amitriptyline, undertook CBT & pain management strategies, your choices are now limited. Your specialist may –
- Prescribe you Cycosporine; not under PBS for this condition.
- Refer you for ETS under a vascular surgeon (or at least have a consultation). They may propose a sympathectomy, especially if there is associated flushing.
- Trial you on topical agents that degranulate your mast cells.
- Refer you off for Botox.
What are the other forms of rosacea?
As previously mentioned, neurogenic rosacea is very rare. It often occurs as a standalone form of rosacea, but in some cases may co-exist with more common types of rosacea including-
- Papular – pustular rosacea; namely pimples & lumps.
- Flushing-blushing rosacea.
- Erythotelengectatic rosacea (often co-existing with above).
- Ocular rosacea, with eye symptoms such as redness, stinging, sun sensitivity.
- Phymatous rosacea. Swelling of the nose (common), ears, forehead.
- Mid-facial swelling, controversial form of rosacea.
Why you should not label common rosacea as ‘neurogenic’ rosacea.
90% of patients with ‘normal’ rosacea will experience symptoms such as burning, stinging, itch, & ‘sensitive skin’. Neurogenic rosacea however presents as symptoms that are significantly more severe than what your skin looks like, ie. your symptoms lie to the right of the bell curve & the impact on your life is significantly more than ‘normal’ rosacea.
Tip: Don’t get normal symptoms of rosacea confused with true neurogenic rosacea otherwise your psyche will flip to a cycle of symptom obsession, leading to greater (& often unnecessary) rumination of symptoms. This will have a tremendous negative impact on your life. Chances are, if you are reading this paragraph, it applies to you.
Let a medical dermatologist diagnose you, don’t Google it or Reddit this condition.
What are natural ways to treat neurogenic rosacea?
You may want to consider non-pharmacological methods to treat rosacea as medical dermatologists, as the name suggests will always prescribe medication (over fairy dust).
The natural route has no scientific basis, however given the banal nature of fluffy medicine, you may want to try a low inflammatory, low acid diet as the first step. Adding anti-inflammatory supplements such as curcumin & turmeric may reduce inflammation, or better still function as a placebo. You can use aloe vera gel on your skin, together with a cooling fan to provide short term relief of pain, burning, & itch.
The greatest gain of natural remedies is to see a clinical psychologist for help.
More on fluffy ways to treat rosacea.
Who to see to help you figure it out?
Discuss options with your medical dermatologist. They will diagnose your condition, confirm the subtype of rosacea & in some cases exclude other conditions that may mimic neurogenic rosacea. Additionally they will prescribe medical therapy prior to consideration of lasers & Botox. Disclaimer: My work is entirely procedural. In the context of rosacea, my skill sets are with lasers including vascular lasers for refractory rosacea & ablative treatment of end-stage rhinophyma. For
Neurogenic rosacea cases, I do inject Botox if medical management fails. I am not the first port of call, I am the last dermatologist you consult if all else fails.
Davin’s viewpoint on Managing Neurogenic Rosacea
Research the meaning of ‘research’ before labelling yourself as having neurogenic rosacea. Read the pharmacology papers, the differential diagnosis and clinical aspects of managing skin, psychology & nerves before opening with the line ‘….according to my own research.’ It takes many hours of reading & cross referencing, before putting a sentence down.
Don’t get me wrong, this page is not designed to get you to see me, nor is it a way to sell you a treatment, it simply exists to cut through the crap & provide you with a solution in as little appointments as possible. On the contrary, try everything else before going down the procedural route as –
- Botox does not ALWAYS work 2. Botox can only be used in some areas. Place it too concentrated or in the wrong areas & you will look like a stroke sufferer for 3-6 months, even longer if Relfydess is used, instead of Botox. 3. Lasers, even vascular lasers with cooling systems work best if there is redness & inflammation. Besides, there is a small chance that lasers can worsen pain for variable periods of time.
Here is a summary as to how to navigate this debilitating, poorly understood & rare condition.
- See a medical dermatologist for a diagnosis. Don’t diagnose this yourself as you have no idea where you lie on the symptomatic scale. You may think symptoms are significant, when in reality they may be normal. The converse applies. A dermatologist can exclude other conditions such as inflammatory conditions such as lupus. Forget your ‘research’, leave it to them.
- Don’t underestimate the fluffy bits; ie. rosacea tips. Even if each tip gives you 1% symptom relief, a culmination of 20-30 tips may give you enough symptom relief to not go on medication or at least have a lower dose of meds.
- Follow advice, as dished out by your dermatologist. Most should be super clear on how to manage this rare condition (when I was doing medical dermatology I would see at least 6-8 cases annually, so in reality if one has been practicing for 20 years, it really is not that rare). Medications can make a difference in most cases. My go to is amitriptyline as, in my view, it works better than gabapentin or pregabapentin (Lyrica). In the past (remember I don’t prescribe now as I am procedural), I started patients at 5 to 10 mg nightly. It does cause drowsiness, so titrate your dosing time. Increase by 5 mg every 1-2 weeks. Most won’t need more than 25 mg, though your physician may push up to 50-75 mg in some cases.
Failing that duloxetine (a newer form of Prozac) can work. My advice is to titrate both Endep & duloxetine. The latter can also help with flushes associated with menopause.
- Talk to someone. Unlikely it’s going to be a dermatologist as most have 5-7 minute appointment slots, acknowledging that some dermatologists like practicing psycho-dermatology. Seek help from a psychologist with a special interest in pain management early. They will teach you how to deal with pain & provide you with CBT techniques, improving your psyche & quality of life. Don’t rely solely on a physician.
- Escalate to high level pain management with an anesthetist or pain specialist. These smart folk can add medications that are outside the box. Your GP or dermatologist will refer you accordingly.
- Meditate, do yoga, enjoy life & stop feeling sorry for yourself. It makes a huge difference when it comes to managing neurologic disorders as well as complex pain management syndromes, OCD, and chronic fatigue syndrome.
- I’m the last person to see for neurogenic rosacea, as my practice window for this condition is procedural, namely trial of Botox. I do perform lasers if there is redness (objective not subjective). Without a good target to hit, the chances of laser working is slim.
Disclaimer: My role in the management of rosacea is a very narrow one, namely my job is procedural. I treat end stage rosacea including phyma patients. I also employ lasers to reduce inflammation & redness. Lasers are not monotherapy. Ideally you should be under the guidance of a medical dermatologist as treatments with topicals & orals are frequently needed. This especially applies to the management of neurogenic rosacea, at least for the first & second line treatments.
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